[Music]
three I
welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world
with me George Galloway and me Joseph
Hyatt standing in for gadri who is on
holiday kobani is not Stalingrad nothing
is like Stalingrad but the Syrian
Kurdish city of kabani is certainly
writing its name into the history books
just yards from the Turkish border the
city is being half overrun by the
Savages of Isis but every street in
every house is being contested by the
young Kurdistan fighters of the ypg
which is the youth section of the local
chapter of the pkk the Kurdistan Workers
Party listed bizarrely as a terrorist
organization by both the US and EU who
now back the Kurds of course the pkk in
the fight against Isis the fighters are
young left and a huge number of them are
women it would be the stuff of a
Hollywood movie if it were not for the
nightmare of the actuality captured
Fighters being beheaded their eyes
gouged out women being raped by the oh
so holy Warriors of the Isis 80-year-old
men have had their heads cut off in
front of their families children and
grandchildren sometimes this story moves
beyond words at least any words that I
can find joining us now is a man of many
words and good ones too Kurdish activist
and writer mmed axoy mmed you've got
your ear to the ground uh in and around
kobani what's the military situation
first of all there on the ground in the
city now well the most recent
information is that uh the ypg and ypj
the women section of the Defense Forces
have taken back 85% of uh the city um
and Sali Muslim has stated that
Liberation is very near for kobani so
positive things are happening um on the
East and Southern fronts um Isis have
been pushed back to almost outside uh
the city they only control some of the
villages that are attached to kobani um
and some uh some neighborhoods on the
outskirts of the city uh so I think that
over the next few days Isis will be
pushed back even further and hopefully
uh we'll we'll leave C money is is that
possible is a is a victory possible and
a and a defeat for Isis possible and if
so what would be the implications of
that what would happen next well I think
the Coalition forces have changed attack
um after seeing that uh that kobani
isn't falling um they waited for 2 3
weeks car said it wasn't part of their
strategy to avoid it falling I think
with the with the Turkish States uh uh
approach to kobani um and being a NATO
member being part of the Coalition the
Coalition wanted kobani to fall but when
it didn't fall and when International
public opinion swung in favor of the
Kurds and kobani um they had to take
steps so now uh just yesterday the
Kurdistan Regional government uh
Parliament uh uh accepted a motion to uh
recognize the cantons of rojava kobani
being one of them which wouldn't have
happened without the Americans giving
the go-ahead um also Isis are being
defeated in certain parts of Iraq
certain Sunni um tribes have uh taken
begun to rise up against them exactly uh
so I think Isis are being pushed back on
all fronts um and you can see this uh in
in the reflection of this in kobani as
well uh what will this mean this will
mean that other forces other powers need
to fill in that vacuum in rojava in
kobani the Kurds already have an
Administration they have people they
have Fighters um and the same needs to
happen in in other parts in raka in
Rabia in Tad um so uh Arab uh tribes um
the other ethnic groups in the region
the other religious groups need to fill
in that power vacuum well we'll talk
about the Arabs in a minute I want to
talk about the Turkish position first it
was I would assume a matter
of Shame consternation certainly uh or
for turkey's friends and allies in NATO
to see a huge Turkish military force at
the fence on the border able to see if
they had field glasses at least the
beheadings and the
murders uh but not being prepared to
lift a finger and worse not being
allowed to uh not being prepared to
allow the gate to be open so that
Turkish Kurds could enter and come to
the side of their Brethren and sisters
uh fighting there uh but the impact
amongst the Kurdish public opinion in
turkey has been dramatic and it now
endangers the peace process between the
pkk and the erdogan government tell us
about that
well this the position of the Turkish
government uh the erdogan government for
two years has been one of supporting
uh the fundamentalist extremist groups
in Syria against the Assad regime they
expected the Assad regime to fall very
quickly the Kurds who have been who were
fighting the Assad regime since 2004 did
not take active active arms against
Assad instead they they built up their
own administrations Turkey were very
afraid of this because they thought it
would reflect badly according to them on
the Kurds of Turkey um so they were
supporting first the al-nusra front
which then is alqaeda affiliate
affiliate which Isis broke off of um and
obviously UK EU us governments were also
supporting the free Syrian Army and the
Syrian National Coalition um against
Assad so all the arms that were provided
by these forces went into the went to
into the hands of these extremist forces
um the Kurds meanwhile refused to take a
part in this uh because one it didn't
recognize Kurdish Administration it
didn't recognize Kurdish rights and
autonomy in Northern Syria um so over
the last two years the Kurds have been
putting up a fight the International
Community media turn a blind eye to it
turkey was funding letting these groups
through their borders but in the last
two three months the international media
has taken paid attention to it uh but
turkey hasn't changed its T um first it
said we've got 49 hostages um who were
taken that was their excuse then they
got them back then they got them back in
uh return for the release of about 180
Isis members apparently who were being
held by turkey
um so Turkey were actually negotiating
with a terrorist
organization um and then uh after this
excuse was taken away they still refused
as you said to let the people across the
border um because the Kurds wanted a
corridor to be opened well that's they
they want uh Turkish occupation of the
north of Syria what they call a buffer
zone what anyone else would call an
occupation presumably the Kurds have no
interest in agreeing to that no they
want a buffal Zone and they want a no
fly zone do Isis have any planes no why
do they want a no fly zone against Assad
turkey and especially the AKP regime
have banked on a Sunni Corridor being
open through Syria going through Iraq
and the rest of the region they want a
Sunni dominated
sectarian uh divide in the region to
serve their own Neo ottoman purposes or
or ideology um their paradigm the way
they see the Middle East is through this
new otoman prism um and the fall of
Assad was going to make this possible
for them but it's worked out exactly in
the opposite direction D dulu was
regularly saying in a matter of weeks
Bashar will fall and of course three and
a bit years on now he's not Fallen he's
not going to fall at least in those
parts of Syria that he and the regime
currently hold let's talk about the uh
the popularity or otherwise of erdogan's
line the alevi people are against it the
Kurdish people are against it the left
such as it is now in Turkey is against
it one imagines that those elements
inside the armed forces that don't like
erdogan don't much fancy a war in Syria
if I'm right about that then the erdogan
position is quite precarious only has
it's a good score 47% but it's not a
majority and it's certainly not an
overwhelming majority no and also
International forces are also against it
now America um the France uh the UK are
starting to uh accept a future with
Assad rather than without Assad and this
is the most this is the key I think
apart from internal opposition external
opposition has swung uh against erogan
as well um Within turkey as with the
gizi protests as with the recent
protests for kobani there's a very very
strong opposition against the erdogan
regime which is becoming ever more
authoritarian um in its policies as well
just the other day they passed the new
bill um extending the police's um uh
kind of Rights in in what they can do
when against protests let's talk about
the Arabs then quickly the situation in
Iraq there's a new prime minister he's
walked a different game from al- Malaki
so far he hasn't really delivered one uh
the image of the Central State in
Baghdad is heavily tarnished by recent
years you say that there are now some
signs of the Sunni tribes in the west of
Iraq in the north and west of Iraq
beginning to turn against Isis tell us
something about that that's new well uh
from what I've read from the media um uh
uh three or four tribes have come
together one very important tribe in
deror I think uh in in that region um
has started fighting Isis um on on the
ground on ground level um I think it's
very important that these tribes come
out um and and unite um and have a
strong government behind them to fight
extremist forces like Isis because uh
that's the only way that as I said they
can fill in that power vacuum otherwise
forces like Isis which have fighers from
all over the world I call them
International hitmen for finance Capital
um will continue kind of borrowing into
that uh into into the region if the
local people if the tribes there don't
put up a strong stand this can only
happen though if things aren't done
along for example ethnic or religious
lines um a sectarian war or uh uh kind
of taking sides on a sectarian or ethnic
uh along those divides will only lead to
more conflict in the future so you know
conflicts with Shia Muslims especially
um the Kurds The Turk men um uh the
Assyrians uh in that region the
Christians all have the right to live in
that region and they have to unite
against in this case a common enemy like
Isis Joseph you were very interested in
the youthfulness and of course the high
female component of this great battle in
kobani weren't you ABS they're very
impressive Force aren't they but the
question is if there is a victory for
them do you think it will change the
circumstance that
definitely um the reason why there are
so many young people and so many women
involved is because of the ideological
standpoint of the of the Kurdish
movement um they believe in a gender
equal uh secular uh Democratic and
communitarian society and system um the
reason why these people find their
future in this system is because it's
not drawn along gender lines it's not
drawn along ethnic or religious lines
and this uh the the administrations in
rojava in Northern Syria including
kobani um will bring about a change will
spread this change across the region
people see their future in this system
in this Administration which accepts the
a uh the the Armenians um the Assyrians
the Arabs living uh there which gives
them the power to uh decide on their own
fate decide on their own future and it's
localized power uh it's it's a it's uh
the um uh the penicillin if you will for
uh Nation statism uh for patriarchy uh
for uh Finance Capital uh industrialism
which is killing the killing the
environment and the ecological uh health
of the of the region really so I think
that a victory for kobani a victory for
Northern Syria for the Kurds and the
other ethnic groups there will mean a
victory for the rest of the Middle East
in a nutshell cuz we only got time for a
nutshell chances of pkk being taken off
the terror list now well this is the
only way that there's going to be a
solution in Turkey um we liken it a
little bit to thec and to Nelson Mandela
situation um if the EU if the UK uh if
the US want peace in Turkey if they want
the war to end for there to be stability
there not just in Turkey but in Iran
Iraq and Syria then the pkk need to be
taken off the terrorist list which will
also strengthen the hand of the Turkish
State and the Turkish government because
then they won't be in negotiation with a
group that's on the terrorist list and
it will also help us Kurdish activists
openly do more activism to help uh
democracy in the region as well because
now we're criminalized whenever we try
to help the pkk or the Kurdish movement
in general um so it's a win-win
situation if the pkk are Dlisted M
thanks for joining us on the Sputnik
coming up after the break an interview
with Dennis Halliday formerly a big wig
with the United Nations gatri and I
caught him in London when he was passing
through just last week
welcome back to Sputnik Dennis Halliday
is one of the most noble men I've ever
known an Irish man he spent decades in
the United Nations reaching the Dizzy
Heights of assistant Secretary General
he was posted to Iraq during the oil for
food program to avert a catastrophe in
which an Iraqi child was dying every 6
minutes of every day and night through
San itions Dennis took a good look
around he did everything that he could
before deciding he couldn't take it
anymore it would not be done in his name
and he walked becoming one of the few
men in public life to voluntarily walk
away from a position of such importance
gatri and I caught up with Dennis
Halliday when he passed through London
just last week and I started out by
asking him do we really have a United
Nations anymore it has a big building
even bigger budgets but it might as well
not be there for all the good that it's
doing yes I hate to admit that of course
I have to agree with that but let me
just say there are two United Nations
United Nations of the member states this
is a States organized paid for managed
function the Secretary General and the
staff is actually the second part of the
equation the states in my view uh in
terms of the real issues the peace
security well-being human rights working
through the security Council have failed
in fact they're showing signs I would
say of corruption and that's the tragedy
well the let's deal with the core of the
problem we have a situation now where
three out of the five permanent members
are now repeatedly declaring war on
other states without now even putting
the matter before the security Council
never mind taking its agreement or
Ascent uh to these uh policies yet these
five permanent members have a veto
Forever on whether or not the security
Council should be refashioned remodeled
reformed or even abolished well this is
our problem we now have member states
who are not uh taking uh proper what's
the word attention not paying proper
attention to the to the Charter the
charter makes it very clear in chapter 7
aggressive Warfare acts of aggression
going to war preemptive strikes whatever
it's called nowadays is is totally in
violation of international law in
violation of the charter in violation of
the membership and as veto members of
the five veto powers for them to break
these laws for them to go to war without
endorsement of the Security Council is
doubly dangerous and doubly undermining
of the whole organization and the
purpose of the organization particularly
as I said before in the security Council
which is so fundamental to World Peace
where we do not have representation we
do not have democracy if you can believe
that we've allowed these five veto
Powers the so-called Victors of the
second world world war to stay in power
to control the essential part of this
organization well that's a problem but
an an even bigger problem is where any
number of members of the permanent five
I've cited three United States Britain
and France because they have been
repeatedly doing it are doing it right
now uh in Syria and arguably in Iraq
decide that if they can't get out from
under The veto power of the other
members of the permanent five well
they'll just go and do what they want
anyway yeah this is what underlines I
think most the failure of the council
and the corruption of the council that
you have member states who are veto
member states permanent member states
and have been since 1945 are willing now
to corrupt the this Charter and go
behind the regulations of the charter
which prevent any form of warfare
whether it's Wars of aggression
genocidal or whatever happen without
permission of the member states as per
the charter as per the other
arrangements that the security Council
functions within uh to me this is the
end of the value added of the security
Council because you what example does
that set for the other countries SP
smaller countries who want to aggress
against a neighbor who want to take on
some issue who want to take on some uh
aggressive role I mean if the leadership
and those held most responsible do not
respect the Charter why should anybody
else well let's take one of those
smaller countries Israel which came into
being as the result of a decision of the
United Nations in just the last few
months
has broken the uh Charter has broken
extant Security Council resolutions has
killed United Nations personnel has
destroyed United Nations facilities in
Gaza in fact over and over again and yet
at the next meeting of the United
Nations can walk up the red carpet as a
Pua member State no one threatens them
with expulsion no one threatens them
with suspension or any sanction of any
kind how can that happen it happens
unfortunately because the United States
gives blind support to Israel there's no
capacity in Congress or in the White
House to correct or punish or hold back
Israel for the internal domestic
politics of the United States
is uh held by the uh lobbies financed by
Israel often with American money as a
matter of fact so the Americans are
afraid to do deal with Israel as Israel
should be dealt with because Israel is
as you said in violation of um just
about every International Convention the
charter itself so we they go in there
and they kill 450 children for example
recently in Gaza and do we get uh does
the world stop no does the UN pay real
attention no some wishy-washy statement
comes out saying regrettably this and
that and whatever and the U in Gaza
itself the UN the UN agency has been
educating and feeding and supporting
these thousands of refugees for some 40
years so the UN is actually being
attacked the schools were bombed by
Israel and again Israel walks free and
it's all because Washington and Britain
to a certain extent and maybe some other
Europeans are afraid to deal with Israel
because of the confusion and the history
of the Jewish people the Jewish State
the Holocaust all of that complexity
but they can't face the reality that
Zionism is something that's got to be
dealt with Let's uh go back to the issue
of structure how can you have a security
Council where some of the world's
biggest countries indeed its second
biggest country is not in the permanent
5 it's permanently locked out of the
permanent 5 how can Germany the greatest
economy in Europe not be in the security
Council Brazil the greatest country in
Latin America locked out permanently of
the security Council surely these kind
of Demands uh now need to be raised that
if you're going to have a security
Council if you're going to have any
permanence uh a permanent five it'll
need be the permanent 10 well you see as
you know better than I probably the
Stranglehold of the five permanent me
Members goes back to Yola when Roosevelt
Stalin and Churchill met and decided
given the failure of the league they
were going to sort out the future have
United Nations which they would control
and that by adding France as a gesture
to um the goal and by adding
China uh they created this five veto
power permanent seat for themselves and
they're still still in business if you
speak they're still controlling the UN
the brick countries that you've
mentioned other large countries are not
represented the north south balance is
just not there there is no democracy it
sounds like Revolution when you talk
about democracy in the context of the
security Council but the South needs to
be represented on a permanent basis or
at least with the same strength I mean I
have a suggestion for that if you want
to get into it tell us how can we solve
this yeah I believe what we have to do
is to abolish the present five we have
to have Regional seats in the security
Council so North America would have one
permanent seat Canada the United States
Mexico would have to decide who sits on
that seat and when one of them speak
when the country sitting speaks that
country will represent the three Latin
America would have one seat maybe Costa
Rica would be selected to sit on that
seat but when Costa Rica spoke she would
speak for the whole of Latin America and
so on for sub Sahara Africa North Africa
the Middle East you could visualize a
very different body with some democracy
at work and representation no veto power
and I think we'd find very different
decisions and these wars of aggression
that we undertake uh would simply in my
view be be changed that would not happen
I don't believe we need that desperately
and it's it's not on the cards because
the the change of the security Council
and its makeup is uh built into the into
the charter and only the member states
the permanent member states can change
the charter so they very very
tily it up to serve their own interests
it's quite extraordinary Dennis H I
salute you thank
you and now it's your turn to tell us
what you think through the portals of
social media what's rattling Joseph well
so on the question of the United Nations
and the state of its Security Council
Neil barington says it's become a
totally irrelevant toothless
organization very rarely does it ever
get close to what it should do well I'm
afraid that there's no arguing with that
Dennis Halliday couldn't really argue
against it he would probably say it's
better that we have it than that we
don't I think it's encouraging a massive
illusion that we have some kind of world
Authority when in truth we don't and
Shan sibon says bring back Kofi Kofi
Anan was a better man than Banky moon or
donkey Moon as some people call him uh
but he had some terrible shortcomings
too quite a lot going on on this
question of turkey and on the border
with obviously situation in kobani uh on
the question of Will President erdogan
let the Turkish Kurds across the border
to help defend the city of kabani uh Ino
Lobo says the Turkish government has
automaic dreams the annihilation of
innocence is inconsequential to them
well they they have they're hoist on
this terrible petard that anything which
strengthens the Kurds their
self-determination their self-organized
ization their military strength is seen
by him as a dagger at the heart of the
Ottoman the Neo ottoman state that he's
trying to create Virginia H disagrees he
says why would he Isis are armed to the
teeth and are organized the Kurds in
Turkey need to CM down I don't think I
would if my loved ones were in trouble
like that well no and of course the
reason Isis are armed to the teeth is
erdogan's fault as well as the fault of
some other governments in that region
all those uh weapons which armed them to
the teeth crossed his border with his
connivance that's all we've got time for
for today sir which alas means that's
the end of the show don't forget to
tweet us it's rtor Sputnik on Twitter
and of course on Facebook it's Sputnik
on Russia today but for me Joseph height
it's goodbye and for me George Gallow
it's been marvelous
oh